Interview with Tara Hunt, Citizen Agency Co-Founder

I have been reading the HorsePigCow blog for a while now, and have listened to many a podcast from Tara Hunt. Each time I read her blog, it makes me think. I love blogs that make me think. She has some interesting viewpoints and is very passionate about the work and the community. Tara, along with Chris Messina, have started a new agency, Citizen Agency. My chat (one of my faves!) with Tara about Tara is below.

I certainly hope I get to meet her and listen to her live in 2007 as I am sure I will learn even more from her.

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Allen: Can you provide a brief bio?

Tara: Sure. Brief…let’s see: Canadian geek girl marketer gets discovered through her blog, moves to San Francisco to work with Riya.com. Uses her relationship building theories to build to a very successful launch. Leaves Riya to start her own company, Citizen Agency, which at 8 months old, has it’s own office (not our living room), a full roster of way cool clients and funds us to live a life of consumer advocacy and open source wonder.

Allen: What do you think has been the biggest change in the 7 years you have been working online?

Tara: Well, definitely the shift from the broadcasting view of the web to the opt-in view of the web. The idea used to be that you would use SEO and email marketing (spam, really) and all sorts of push technologies to drive traffic to sites. Now, you create great spaces, excellent content and purpose on the web and, hopefully, people will come by. Marketing isn’t about the outgoing messages as much as the listening and conversing, etc.

The Cluetrain Manifesto is finally taking hold.

Allen: What’s tech life like in the valley now-a-days?

Tara: It’s pretty exciting, but I have nothing to compare it to. I spent the first bubble looking inwards. I had an idea of it, but didn’t get to live it. I wasn’t here for the time period (the dark ages) between the first bubble and now, but I understand that there was still some steady growth and activity. Still entrepreneurs and sites launching. It’s just very fashionable these days…which isn’t a bad thing, necessarily. It just means that people are innovating faster than can be adopted. Much of what is happening here right now won’t hit the wider markets for years.

I have to always keep that in perspective. Hell, I just got my dad to install Firefox (I’ve been trying for years). Blogging? That’s still a way off…and he is very tech savvy.

Allen: Which conferences are your favorites and are must-attends for people in the industry?

Tara: SXSW Interactive rocks. Great time and interesting panels. Hallway surfing at the Web 2.0 conference is always good. Any and all BarCamps you can find. I went to FOO Camp this year, but that is invite only. It was pretty amazing, though. I heard that Northern Voice rocks.

Allen: What’s been your biggest mistake since you started your Internet career?

Tara: Not having enough faith in myself earlier on. Questioning my gut instinct. Not taking enough risks. It took me far too long to just go for it. I don’t know, I think this may be more of an issue for women (which is why there aren’t more of us starting new companies), so I’ve actually started a list of women who risk so that we can tell our stories and make it known that the worst thing that could happen probably isn’t all that bad.

Allen: What’s been your biggest achievement?

Tara: I don’t think I’ve gotten there yet. I’m proud of where I’ve been and where I’m going, though. I’m proud that I’ve started a company based on my higher purpose and that it is becoming a proof of concept.

Allen: What’s Citizen Agency all about (people, services, etc.)?
Tara: Citizen Agency is about teaching people that ‘community’ isn’t a word to exploit. CA was born out of Chris (Messina) and my collective higher purpose: to support the building blocks that empower and give independents the ability to make a difference in the world (or at least know that they can).

We like to say that we work for our clients’ clients. We are there to make sure that these companies are going in a good direction. We believe that is the golden key now: Authentic care for your community of customers. From my perspective, marketing isn’t about creating ‘buzz’ or ‘viral messages’ – it’s about building great stuff with the intent you are going to fill a need for people, then celebrating each and every person who comes along and connects with your vision.

We look at three things that have to be balanced in your approach: Environment, Product and Communication/Community. The environment is something you can’t change, but should be aware of. The product is totally within your control. There are tons of factors here: is it too complicated? Useful? How is the design? Interoperable? Etc. Communication is all about how well you listen. What you offer your community members. It has to be a win-win situation. It isn’t about broadcasting, it is about conversing.

Citizen Agency is made up of 3 partners now, Chris Messina, Ben Metcalfe and myself. We were fortunate to hook up with Ben, whose expertise in the area of developer networks gives us a real unique viewpoint into developer networks – very specialized communities.

Allen: Are you looking for any additional consultants (wink wink)?

Tara: Soon…if things keep going the way they are going. It is our ultimate goal to have people with the same goals in mind around the world doing this work. Pinko Marketing has seen a bit of this already.

Allen: What’s it like working with Chris (Messina)?

Tara: People always ask how we can be in a relationship, live together and work together, but I can’t imagine not working together. We eat, sleep and otherwise live our work. Chris is amazingly talented and brilliant. Like any thinker, he can be difficult to ‘rein in’. LOL. I sometimes become the taskmaster to his creative genius.

Allen: I loved your post about how you furnished the Citizen Agency office, certainly a shift from my days at CKS in the mid-90’s where everyone had two Aeron chairs, and whatever they wanted. Is this one of the differences you see between 1.0 and 2.0 Web? Better management of money? Ok to have a Wii, but not 10 of them?

Tara: Sure. I still see a lot of crazy purchasing. It depends on the people. I think the stronger personalities of this era are the more level-headed ones. People like Ev and Biz (Obvious), Stewart and Caterina (Flickr), Jimmy Wales (Wikipedia), Craig Newmark (Craigslist) etc. who aren’t about money, they are about community and building great stuff.

Hell, we bought a chandelier – although it was $299 on eBay (including shipping) – and are installing some nice speakers in the office we probably don’t need.

Allen: What’s been the most frustrating thing so far?

Tara: The remnants of 1.0 – the people who still think it’s about them and wanting to make billions. Putting money ahead of people will mean you will end up with neither.

Allen: What’s the one thing since starting you wish you would have done differently?

Tara: Started earlier.

Allen: Do you use any web apps to help run Citizen Agency?

Tara: Yeah. Tons. I’ll include the desktop ones, too…’cause they are just as cool:
Blinksale, Harvest, PBWiki, BaseCamp, Skype, Ma.gnolia, Tangler (beta), Twitter (kinda), OmiPlanner, Transmit (mac app), AppZapper (for all of those apps that Chris sends me to try out), Camino, Firefox, Blogger, Wordpress, ClaimID, Bloglines, gMail, gCal, Google Docs & Spreadsheets, Creative Commons, Flickr, Blip.tv, YouTube, Facebook, Upcoming.org, Jajah, Freeconference, Speakr, Feedburner, IRC, colloquy, adium, 1001, InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, GarageBand, iPhoto, Plazes, Pzizz, Quicksilver, Skitch, SubEthaEdit, VoodooPad, Technorati, CrazyEgg, gTalk, Google Analytics, … I could append this forever.

Allen: How’s the Nabaztag?

Tara: Citizen Nabaztag is awesome. Her favorite song is ‘Banana Phone’ by Raffi. Totally send her messages. She gets lonely.

Allen: What are your thoughts around microformats? Are they the next step is using HTML more efficiently?

Tara: Microformats are essential to creating the future building blocks of the web.

Today, there are some people dominating the space, but in the future, I see the web like David Weinberger’s ‘Small Pieces Loosely Joined’ really coming into being. Think about it like the web is a big box of Lego. Remember when you were a kid and you had that friend who seemed to have the biggest box of Lego ever? You’d help him/her dump them out onto the floor and start grabbing blocks to build something, whether it’s a house or a giant Star Wars craft. You could build anything you desired. Lego were so simple. Simple building blocks.

But the key is that they fit together to make stuff. Right now, we are having a tough time fitting our individual blocks together. Microformats are the things that make the random pieces into interconnectable blocks. And these aren’t standards that are passed down by some big corporation who wants to rule the web, either. These are grassroots born, community built…so it’s a vendor neutral way that we can trust. Then we add stuff like OpenID in and we are cooking. :)

Allen: One of the topics that came up after the Future of Web Apps (back in September) conference was about the fact that there were no female speakers… what is your take on the male/female issue when it comes to the Web?

Tara: Wow. This is a big one. There are actually more women on the web. Really. So, why are there so few as speakers? A-listers? Etc.? Well, it’s an “it’s everybody’s fault” issue. Women do it to themselves by not putting themselves out there. Men (especially geeks) tend to assume if you are a woman, you aren’t a geek. Sponsors and attendees in general add to the issue of the lack of female speakers by demanding big names who are already speaking everywhere…the cycle continues.

I’m hoping that we can start breaking it down. I’m not afraid to speak up or put myself out there. That’s for sure.

Allen: What do you think is the one thing you wish the Web had today that is just not available (yet)?

Tara: Co-operation.

Allen: Which web apps do you use on a regular basis?

Tara: Basically, the ones I listed as what our business uses.

Allen: In your opinion, what are the top 2 things a blog must have/do to be successful?

Tara: You are asking the wrong question. I want to know how you define success. :)

Allen: Where do you see the blog going in the next 1-2 years?

Tara: The blog? Mine? Gosh, I hope I have more time to write. I want to research more case studies. Do some more in-depth analysis. Right now I barely have time to post snippets. Twitter has replaced blogging for me.

Allen: Where is the “community” going in the next year or so?

Tara: Wherever people want to go. I do think that people will start finding that there are more ways to connect to people with similar interests. I’m looking at my various friend networks and seeing that, although there is some overlap, there are many ‘friends’ I have in one place who I don’t have in another. Communities center around passions and interests. The idea that there will be one community to beat ‘em all is ludicrous. I love the nichification of the web. I hope it goes further in that direction.

Allen: Where is Tara going in the next 1-2 years?

Tara: Nowhere. We have a 2 year lease. lol Um…I’m hoping that I can get into more research projects. I’d love to launch an event series. I’d love to do some more writing…maybe even publish some research papers and even work towards a book.

I’d also like to take more time for offline activities like going to the theatre, working out, learning French, having dinner parties, traveling for pleasure, etc. We’ll see…

Allen: Anything else to add from the land of Tara?

Tara: I’m really fortunate to have the life I have. I just hope that my son (13) will live in a world where we’ve gotten through all of the war and fighting and crap and can move onto finding our overall higher purpose. Just imagine what we can accomplish then.