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Just What Does it Take to Present at the NY Tech Meetup?
Last night in NYC the NY Tech Meetup was held at the IAC headquarters in Manhattan. I’ve been covering the monthly event for nearly two years now and try to get every presentation on video for those of you who either couldn’t make it or are located elsewhere. Over the past few months I’ve received several emails and chats wondering if I had any insight on how to actually get on the list of presenters for the meetups. I enjoy attending the meetup each month, meeting CN readers and helping to expose a bunch of NYC startups to the world. Meetup organizers Dawn and Scott do a good job in organization and event night management. Things move along on time better than most events I attend.
As I started to look back, one thing seemed to stick out. "Friends of Meetup" seemed to grab an abnormally large number of the presentation slots. It’s not just one month, it’s multiple months with multiple companies.
After Charles Forman presented for the 3rd time in a year, I asked event organizer Dawn Barber how Forman was selected to present again tonight as he didn’t even post on the "I’d like to present list". Dawn said that "this was something new" and that "people want to see this". Not sure when that survey of "people" was completed but I wasn’t provided a ballot form. I explained that I’ve heard from several people expressing their frustration with the way the presenters are selected. She said excuse me for a second and jumped on stage, whispered something to Meetup CEO Scott Heiferman and then sat back down. Immediately thereafter Scott said "I should probably note that I have a relationship with iminlikewithyou and the next company (familybuilder)". I wonder if he would have said anything had I not asked. Of course not. Well now my Columbo hat just got a bit higher on my head - what else might be going on here?
Let’s take a look at the companies that presented and see if there are any potential conflicts:
- Adarky - I can’t find any direct conflicts but the founder Steve Spurgat was able to present 2x in
under a year- no post on the messageboard - presented in Dec. 2006 and Oct. 2008 - Change.org - Josh Levy is also editor of Personal Democracy Forum where Tech Meetup organizer Dawn Barber serves as Director of Marketing & Events - no post on the messageboard
- ImInLikeWithYou - founder Charles Forman has been able to present 3x in a year, always gets bonus time (my camera counts the time) and is able to present just a powerpoint (something no one else is able to do). Meetup founder Scott Heiferman is on the board of this company - no post on the messageboard
- FamilyBuilder - Meetup founder Scott Heiferman is on the board of this company - did post on the messageboard
- CollabFinder - I couldn’t find any conflicts but this site didn’t post on the main message board as directed - will need to investigate further
- RmbrMe - followed the proper protocol
- Aquahoops - the founder of this game, E.J. Mablekos, is an employee of ImInLikeWithYou (Dan Frommer notes that E.J. is a former employee)
- The Ladders - 3 presentations in the last year - I am guessing last night’s was a paid slot for the company sponsoring drinks afterwards
Scott makes it clear each month that the NY Tech Meetup is separate from the company Meetup. I still don’t get this frankly. Meetup is the only company to get a "free" table each month to pimp their goods. There’s no transparency on the funds for the group - we will save this part of the discussion for another post.
So what happens when Dawn and Scott select companies that are either friends, associates or that they have a financial interest in? The simple answer is a lot. There are actually two different issues but they compound to cause an even larger overall issue.
First, many good NYC startups lose their chance for press and buzz. There are plenty of startups on the list, but those were passed over for "friends of meetup". Second, the "friends of meetup" walk away with the worldwide press. Check out the recap of last night’s event on Alley Insider. The only company mentioned was ImInLikeWithYou. Out of the 8 companies, Eric picked this one to discuss. The two apparently non-conflicted startups got nothing, zip, nada. I am by no means calling out Alley Insider, it’s just something I see across the board at many conferences where conflicts are evident.
I’ve setup a new rule on CenterNetworks. We will no longer post the videos of companies where there are apparent conflicts. I thought about this long and hard and if we did, we would be exacerbating the situation. I’d rather spend the time on the companies that actually need the media attention.
The bottom line is simple - if we want NYC to kick ass in the world’s tech community, we have to stop favoring a few "friends" and let everyone get time on stage. While I agree that many of the apps that request to present aren’t actually in the right stage to present, there are plenty of others who deserve their time on stage. Let’s hope that corrective action will be taken swiftly and there will be no more conflicts. For my other suggestions on how to improve the meetup, check out my 5 things post from last year.
Lastly, I totally understand that it’s very difficult to stand up and voice your opinion even though ya’all will share it with me in private. Don’t worry - I will keep fighting for transparency and will post a "connected list" each month until we see some positive change - call me Maverick Allen.
Feel free to place your bets on which "friends of Meetup" will present next month :) I have a couple ideas on who will get a nod.
*applause*
Thank you for doing the right thing to make sure we help startups that deserve the attention.
Hi Allen, fascinating post. Very interested to read what you find out about the invite lists for future meetups.
At SAI we usually try to do a “curtain-raiser” to the NY Tech Meetup, so every invited company gets some link-love and a shout-out if nothing else. We did one for last night’s event. (CollabFinder’s website wasn’t live prior to the event.)
http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/10/ny-tech-meetup-lineup-what-s-charles-forman-got-up-his-sleeve-
As for our coverage, yeah we usually highlight one or two companies, we just see as it as part of our journalistic mission to identify what we think is most likely to be interesting to our audience.
See you again next month, if not sooner.
*Standing Ovation*
Great post!
Allen,
That’s a bummer that you wont post my video. I understand where you are coming from, but as my presentation clearly showed, i could use the promotion :)
I was refreshing all day to see the vid, so i’m sad. Would you mind getting in touch and maybe getting me the video some other way? It’s the first time I have ever presented in a forum like that and would love to see it. You certainly perform a valuable service by filming them all.
As I stated at the beginning of my talk, I was honored to be able to present a fairly simple iPhone app amongst a bunch of robust web products. But maybe there aren’t so many people doing iPhone stuff and willing to share their experience with it.
FYI, I will hopefully be presenting Aqua Hoops at the NY iPhone Developer’s Meetup this evening at TekServe
Bravo. Rather bizarre how an event where you need to pay $10/head to have the honor of traveling half way to the west coast to crowd into a ridiculously arranged hall (worse even than cooper u.!) and sit through some occasionally interesting but often very weak presentations — how that is considered the main tech event in the city. Silly people.
Kudos to Allen for the call outs. I went to a bunch of Meetups 2006-2008 before moving out of NYC earlier this year. Good to see part of the curtain pulled back.
NY has a weird inner tech network. The majority of these companies were funded by a small group of the same people. Angels like Betaworks or Roger Ehrenberg. Scott is also clearly in this inner network (but why they all like Charles Forman is beyond me.) Meetup is clearly one of those situations where you have to know someone to present.
Interesting. I attended a few NY Tech Meetups before they became a zoo, and I did notice a certain coziness among the organizers and presenters, but I attributed that to the tight-knit network of NY software entrepreneurs. I’m still not sure that isn’t the main factor, though you make a credible case for conflict of interest. In any case, it’s at least an argument for transparency.
I find it easier to wait until I hear about startups from blogs or Twitter. And I find the networking opportunities to be a lot better in smaller, more coherent groups.
Well done Allen!
NY Tech Meetup is a joke. I attended one of them (and I traveled from the far to attend) and was seriously disappointed. It’s unprofessional and few people dominate the whole thing.
PS: Charles Forman is one of the most pretentious people I’ve ever met. Wouldn’t wanna be in the same room with the guy again.
I’ve always said that all this ‘disclosure’ hype is amusing, since duh, financial conflicts are so obvious and easy to note. Outside of that, we simply have no way of knowing ‘who our boys are’. Social disclosure doesn’t exist and most likely won’t. (Unless it’s dragged out like the candidates are doing now, heh)
Story has been linked to by Indian media as well
http://www.techgoss.com/Story/159S12-Startup-meet–nbsp–blatant-favoritism.aspx
Scott mentioned on Tuesday that the Tech 2.0 Meetup will be evolving into an organization, and that there would be smaller offshoot meetings that would help that evolution. Perhaps this is the time to push for more transparency and better representation?
I’ve tried numerous times to reach out to Scott to provide my thoughts (and those I hear from others) on ways to improve the meetup. Scott has ignored me each and every time. I provide more coverage of the meetup than anyone else. My guess has been that he likes it just the way it is. He’s said for months they are open to change - nothing’s happened.
Thanks!
Thanks anonymous :)
I don’t know Charles so I can’t comment past saying that his presentation included a lot of slides about himself and he loves to curse. Cursing is called "cheap pops".
Yep - you can have the video - just email me where you want me to upload it, etc.
It’s too bad you couldn’t counter my arguments :)
Thanks Eric - great meeting you on Tuesday. I will save ya a seat for next time :)
This looks like the same kind of backroom dealings that go on with the selection of presenters at techcrunch50.
I will say that in my initial post I had some comparisons to said conference but decided to remove them because I wanted to keep this issue specific.
I agree with everyone - this is a GREAT post.
It seems to me that a simple rating system should be put into place to determine who get’s to present…basically make RSVP be required to attend…and in the RSVP process, list out all the presentation pitches; make people pick the top 5 they want to hear…the ones with the most votes get the nod to present.
Or if nothing else, get everyone at the current event to vote on which talks should get the nod for the next meetup…
It’s a networking event, for a networked group…shouldn’t it be using network effects to help drive or at least influence our experiences?
Bravo, Allen. My sense is that this kind of stuff happens with many events, not just NY Tech Meetup
It’s a tough call — I’m not a fan of people getting special treatment because they know the organizers, by any means. But I remember a year or two ago there was some trouble with a few people who gave legitimately terrible presentations for company ideas that didn’t even exist yet, and one was even borderline booed offstage, so I know there’s a pressure on the organizers to keep the presentations high-quality. That often implies some sort of reputation system.
In this kind of economic situation I’m afraid we won’t be seeing as many brand-new start-ups emerging, which could make things tougher.
Nice job.
This is the same guy who took … what … FOUR YEARS … before he finally got his team together to update Meetup.com’s Web site. Of course, the NY Tech Meetup will be different, probably in five or six years.
Awesome post Allen. Yeah, we’ve gone through the process to try to present quite a few times. We usually apply really early. No luck, and don’t really get much follow up or response.
Seriously - economy is falling apart, startups won’t be able to raise money, and you are worried because maybe Scott put a few of his friends to the front of the line? He is the nicest guy in the world and has supported this community more than you or any of your commenters. Pls stop wasting your time writing about shit that doesnt matter.
I’d be curious to know out of the past few month of presentations at the Tech Meetup, which ones were the best (most well received by the audience) and which ones followed “protocol” for signing up.
I think Dawn is an excellent filter/curator of interesting technology companies, and I would trust her judgment and her social circle far more than I would trust a general NYC democracy.
I think the best way to address the problem of the lack of democracy is to start your own meetup. I think CenterNetworks has the brand to support that; I’d attend. And then you can make it as democratic as you want.
There are plenty of people who request to present each month to pick out 5-7 good ones. I am all for high quality presentations, but to let those in the "clique" present whenever they want is absurd.
I actually think we will see more startups launching now.
FYI, as a side note, your comment system is a total pain. I had to fill out the CAPTCHA 4 times, and apparently you have a 5 minute delay due to caching. You should really install a third-party comment system. I’m obviously biased in favor of Disqus as an investor, but please install any of them because this comment system is quite a bother.
Certainly Dawn is an excellent filter, right? She picks friends of hers, working associates and friends of Meetup really well! :)
Probably important to note that many of the "friends" get funding from USV right?
Thanks for your feedback - I am doing everything I can to help move NYC tech forward in the eyes of the world.
The cache is not currently on so all comments appear immediately. You only get the Captcha if our spam protection service Mollom views your comment or your connection as potential spam. I do appreciate the feedback and will report your comments to Mollom so they can investigate.
I just met with Daniel Ha this morning!
Thanks Howard - go make friends with the clique and you will get right on stage! Just printout the card we put in the post and show it when you arrive - they will get you to the vip room :)
Allen - Spot on as usual. I was there Tue night and my sentiments echo yours. We have often thought about applying but have yet to because it seems futile. That said, I now have lowered expectations such that i view the evening as a networking night with the chance at catching a good company. Sad, because it could be so much more.
So while I was there, a guy from Firstmark Capital reminded me that they raised $30mm for this outfit. With that kind of coin, there should be no need to stick to your cozy relationships so I can only conclude that they are not putting the mission first. I also have no doubt that Scott is a super nice guy and has done a lot to help the NY Tech community. So, Thanks, Scott. The problem remains.
Allen - You totally have the fanbase to create your own Meet. Don’t let the fame spoil ya, brotha!
Dude - when was the last time a foul mouthed commenter with no website named “Anonymous” was taken seriously? Think of the time you just wasted by leaving an ineffective comment. :-)
Don’t stop applying Michael - keep at it. Thanks for the compliment!
(Allen, you incorrectly reported that I have presented twice in under a year. I haven’t presented in two years.)
It’s nice to see this little, relaxed, grass roots project that Scott and Dawn started years ago grow to a point of inciting “controversy.” I am unaware of the exact editorial process so won’t attempt to defend it - but whatever the process, it grew the group from 10 of us to thousands of us. I have little doubt some of that growth stems from giving extra attention to early adopters (I am an early adopter, so are The Ladders and many other repeat presenters).
I really hope they don’t read this post and go back to the “American Idol” style voting method. When they tried it the presentations were oh so dull.
Hey Allen, I know that controversy increases web traffic so why don’t you just write a nice, long blog post criticizing all organizations that give a little extra attention to early adopters. You can start with LiveJournal and Wikipedia.
Steve - You point is generally well taken but don’t you think that (to their credit) that the project is of such stature and popularity that they can expand beyond that? One would have thought that this Tuesday’s would have no reason to reek of cronyism other than…..cronyism. Sure, human nature is what it is and relationships drive the train but it (seems) in this case that it’s the rule. Allen is lamenting in his criticism because it doesn’t have to be that way. I’d almost go so far to say Scott should be like “Dude, I’m on your board, I can’t very well have you headlining my own list of presenters”
Thanks for the correction Steve - it was December 2006 and now October 2008 - I’ve corrected the article.
I guess you don’t normally read CN (If you don’t, I sure hope you will!) because if you did you would know I never write for "increases in web traffic" - if I did, I’d be on Digg and the other social sites and probably be making a lot more money.
In fact, this post while having a lot of comments, actually has very little pageviews. For comparison, my Mollom story last night has the same amount of pageviews.
Perhaps one day we can discuss Adarky further.
Why would they want to expand beyond giving extra attention to those who helped grow the group? How is that evolution to you? Should LiveJournal, who gives lifetime free accounts to early adopters, just start charging those early members now that the company is big and doesn’t need them anymore? That does not sound like growth to me.
Early adopters are not cronies. They are people who helped grow the organization. When we were ten, Scott gave us all little tech meetup business cards - we passed them out, invited people, and worked our asses off to help grow the group. There is nothing wrong with reaping tiny benefits from that (tiny, as I have only presented twice in the lifetime of the group). There is also nothing wrong with Scott allowing presentations of companies he has an interest in - he is utterly transparent about these interests and also deserves to reap the benefits of his hard work.
Hi Allen,
No problem on the date correction. Thanks.
Yes, I have not read CenterNetworks (but certainly will) and am not familiar with the rest of your content. I was just a little confused/concerned by this post.
Sure, would love to talk Adarky sometime.
Thanks,
-Steve
Let’s remember that Scott tries each month to make it clear that Meetup, inc. is NOT related to the NY Tech Meetup. It’s always been hard for me to believe that since:
a. they don’t release any figures on the accounting for the group - most believe it’s a nice moneymaker or if it isn’t, then the sponsors are getting some nice pumping for no money. Dawn couldn’t really explain why the meetups aren’t held at CU anymore since the majority believe it’s a MUCH better location.
b. there’s always an initial team/group that makes something go. We hear every month how it started with x people in Scott’s basement, yadda yadda. I guess we now know why we hear it so often :) At some point, that argument becomes completely moot. The meetup of 2005 is not the meetup of 2008. And if your claim was valid, then ya’all should hoist me up and make me a cake every month. I provide more coverage of the tech meetups than any other source, period. I don’t care - I want to help NYC and the tech culture here as best as I can.
It’s probably going to be hard to have a fair argument with you seeing as your startup is willing to take content from across the web and remove the ads that are paying for the content that you and your customers consume. :)
If we really want to help start-ups get the attention they deserve, then we should make ourselves heard.
Why shouldn’t the New York Tech Community pick who demos? I put up a quick hack to allow people to vote for the next ny tech meetup: http://bit.ly/2S3vH7
I think we owe it to the community to make sure the right start-ups get heard.
So you believe:
a. Scott is lying about the relationship between Meetup Inc and Tech Meetup and that $10 we pay at the door is a secret source of revenue for Meetup Incorporated, a company with millions of members and number paid meetup groups in the high 5 digits.
b. Screw the early adopters and people who helped the group grow, yadda yadda..
c. You deserve cake for your coverage of the events (I wouldn’t argue with that, actually - let him eat cake).
d. Guys who help create interesting ad blocking technology have little or no credibility.
I don’t publicly release my personal or business numbers, do you? The assumption that private numbers equals dishonesty is a false dilemma that weakens your POV. Calling a guy a liar with no substance to your argument (or research) hurts your journalistic credibility.
I could go on, but this whole thing is a little too tabloid for my tastes.
Good luck,
-Steve
Allow me to reply to your comments:
a. Scott is lying about the relationship between Meetup Inc and Tech Meetup and that $10 we pay at the door is a secret source of revenue for Meetup Incorporated, a company with millions of members and number paid meetup groups in the high 5 digits.
I am not saying or suggesting Scott is using it as a secret source of income for Meetup - but seeing as it’s a typical group like the other 80 million on Meetup, would it be that hard to release the numbers?
b. Screw the early adopters and people who helped the group grow, yadda yadda..
Not sure that early adopters is the right term for the people who initially helped the group get going. And it’s awesome that you were there when the group was 10, 20, etc. The reward should be in seeing how many people come now each month and how many new great startups get to showcase their wares!
c. You deserve cake for your coverage of the events (I wouldn’t argue with that, actually - let him eat cake).
I don’t want any cake, I am just using your reasoning to make the case.
d. Guys who help create interesting ad blocking technology have little or no credibility.
Welp, tomorrow - let’s meet at the times square station on the 1/2/3 at 8:30am. What I’d like to do is watch you go through without paying. Then we will ride to another location, and get a nice breakfast. I will watch you walk out without paying. Then let’s head to the Apple Store - so I can watch you pick up a macbook pro without paying.
Steve - You seem to take any point we make as a failure to acknowledge the contributions of the early crowd. Far from it. But I would bet that when you pioneers meet in the virtual garage way back when, you didn’t say “let’s build this up and pretend to host the most promising startups (the real allure to attendees) but what we’ll really do is just favor our buddies since we were the early adopters. C’Mon, you visionaries wanted to build a venue to feature the best of the startup crowd. Don’t deny it. With that, you must support the concept of a more honest attempt at selection. That’s all that is being argued. If Scott could, with clear conscience get up and say “Guys, we scoured the city and the absolute best we found just happened to be our buddies, just so you know” I’m sure everything would be ok. But as it ism when he announces everyone on the list has some sort of connection, you’d be mistaken not to believe that the entire audience quietly goes WTF? As well they should.
Allen,
I do think you’re being unfair– as someone who’s run conferences and events, the sheer amount of time & effort is exhausting. Its not easy, mind you.
Instead of hammering away, you could have suggested some constructive alternatives, like an editorial board to review each applicant and pick who would meet. Instead of assuming conflicts and not covering good ideas.
Devin
Hi Michael,
Yes, there was a failure to recognize the early crowd until your most recent comment but the issue with this article and subsequent comments goes deeper. The article is based on bad math and weird justifications. Guess what, guys. The NY tech community is small and Scott is highly connected. It is unlikely he can find a presenter that he is not somehow connected to. The Aqua Hoops guy working for iminlikewithyou is playing favorites? Are you for reals?
Beyond that, the article and comments are riddled with unfounded assumptions of dishonesty, shady accounting, and a weird “I will fight for transparency,” self proclaimed Maverick-ness. Sorry guys, but fighting Scott for the tech community is like fighting Batman to get the Joker.
Scott actually referenced (semi responded to) this article in the new tech message board. Go read the real deal.
Michael, on an unrelated note I just spent a half hour on Gift Girl profiling my girlfriend. Fantastic stuff.
I presented two sites at NYC Tech Meetup (cueflash.com and editthis.info), and had no connection to anyone there. He runs a tight ship on timing, and sometimes will let a presenter stay up a little little longer if the audience is interested.
Scott is a showman, and puts on an entertaining show, and that seems to be the goal. He may take liberties with fairness to reach that goal, but if the show isn’t interesting to those who attend, they stop attending, and the buzz machine dies.
Steve,
Well, hats off to this entire thread for not turning this into a flame war for flaming’s sake. It seems clear that everyone here wants the same thing. I’ll leave it with: Yes, Scott is highly connected. Yes, he probably knows many if not all in the community. Sitting on the board or employing the majority of presenters, while not automatically riddled with conflicts, just raised suspicion. That’s all. It doesn’t say Scot’s a bad guy. I’m sure Scott knew that it might look bad. I think the article was written from a viewpoint of high expectations given the position he is in to do great things.
You take the other side of an issue with class. Commendable.
Mike
…and Thanks for the kind words on GG. Several mod’s coming in the next week based on feedback (we’re 2 weeks old) Send me your email address (mike at giftgirl dot com) and I’ll set you up with a free sub. It’s only fair to your girlfriend!
Devin - I’ve actually provided many constructive changes - going back over a year. I’ve tried numerous times to reach out to Scott, every time I’ve received no response.
When I began offering my suggestions, I didn’t even know about all th friending that was/is going on.
I want the meetup to be the best it can possibly be for everyone involved.
*Standing Ovation*
Great post!
When a judge has a connection to a defendant in a case, he or she recuses himself. If Scott is so well-connected and that unfortunately leads to numerous conflicts of interest with regards to the selection process, maybe it’s time for him to stand down as the NY Tech Meetup organizer and annoint someone else to run it.
I go to lots of meetups and most charge nothing or a low fee to cover refreshments and the modest fee MeetUp charges to be listed. I always wondered why this MeetUp brings in $4000+/month and where it all is going. They should have gift bags & an open bar!
Don’t they have sponsors like other tech meetups do to cover the cost of renting the space? If so, it should be free to attend. This always left a bad taste in my mouth. I guess we should be lucky they charge $20 to hear startup presentations (unbelievable).
I go to lots of meetups and most charge nothing or a low fee to cover refreshments and the modest fee MeetUp charges to be listed. I always wondered why this MeetUp brings in $4000+/month and where it all is going. They should have gift bags & an open bar!
Don’t they have sponsors like other tech meetups do to cover the cost of renting the space? If so, it should be free to attend. This always left a bad taste in my mouth. I guess we should be lucky they don’t charge $20 to hear startup presentations (unbelievable).
Pleaze delete! Second one is correct.
While you’re at it, why don’t you demand the MoMa fire all their art curators because they find art using their wealth of knowledge and connections in the art scene. The last I checked, meetup presenters were not convicted of crimes (although, arguably, some of them should be). Sorry anonymous, but really bad analogy.
Scott’s eye for presenters is one of the many reasons the group has grown. If you don’t agree with that (or any curated event for that matter) then why don’t you all start your own tech meetup? With maxed out RSVP’s every month, I’m sure NYTM can handle a little competition.