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Where Are the PHP Developers in NYC?
Written by Allen Stern - February 5, 2008
NY-based BricaBox CEO Nate Westhimer has a lengthy post today about the company's attempts to hire a PHP developer in NYC. Nate posted the PHP position on a variety of job boards (including ours) and hasn't received any response to-date.
BricaBox is looking for a PHP developer to start on a three-month contract. I am wondering if it's because his job description is short and to the point? There's nothing in the post to get a developer excited -- no talk about lunches, Wii tourneys, beer fridges, etc. Also, I wonder if the note about "potential equity" might be scaring away potential applicants.
Nate notes regarding a possibility for why it's hard to find developers in NYC:
Probably the best insight on the matter came from my very own partner and CTO of BricaBox: Kyle. He reminded me that startups = risk, and that with the economy the way it is right now people would feel more comfortable working in an unexciting job that’s definitely going to be around in a year.
So, it’s sad for me to say, because I’m such a booster of the NY tech community, but in my mind NYC is failing us right now. I’d almost like to think that we’re the only ones having this problem, but I know we’re not. Everyone is. And this makes me wonder: what’s the solution? Are we fools to try and work with local folks? Can we only hire when it’s permanent? Should we kick the dream of finding a team-member, rather than a code-monkey, to the curb?
I think Nate is going to need to pound the pavement and get out to some hardcore development meetups. Any other suggestions for Nate on finding a PHP developer in NYC?
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I have to chime in here ... it might not be just there advert, but maybe the shortage of good php developers out there.
We face the same thing here in NZ, finding good quality PHP developers is a very hard thing to do. I know of 4 top notch positions in NZ paying very well, with great rewards (free fruit, pool tables, flexihours etc etc) ... and no one to fill them.
Any student reading this? LEARN php now - become a GREAT php developer and right now, you could walk into almost ANY development job you want.
I recommend going virtual if you are looking for contractors, it takes a little more upfront specifications building, but there is lots of talent around the US and frankly the globe that is ready to do contract work if you broaden your search base.
Thanks for the post, Allen, and for the feedback Craig and Mr K. You know, it's probably a combination of all of these things: security, supply, demand, location, and maybe some people need to read in a posting that we're fun people. I just figure if anyone searches about us for a moment they'll find out that we're very social fun people. Ahh well, the search continues.
Same problem here - also located in NYC.
Problem is not so much finding PHP developers, but competent ones. I've written about this before, but PHP is partially to blame.
The issue is that a lot of "developers" who get started on PHP pick up a ton of bad habits and by not having exposure to other languages, have a limited view on good application design, good code practices, etc.
I have the sneaking suspicion that a lot of PHP developers only want contract positions because the challenge of a full time staff position seems beyond them - or something similar.
You are almost better off looking for someone who doesn't do PHP and move them into it.
Just my .75 (adjusted for inflation)
I am a developer, and know PHP very well; however, I much prefer Python/Django.
Here is what turned me off while reading your post:
-PHP is known to get very messy and hard to maintain
-Good developers want to design and implement new systems
From your ad:
"Ideally, you can dive into a complex codebase..."
I read this as:
"try to reverse engineer and fix other people's crap"
Also, the three month contract is not the right "try out" period. A better way to do it is to have a developer complete a 2 hour task on contract. They can do it from their home, its short, and you pay them < $100. You can see most of the tell tale signs you are looking for by doing this.
The problem is that with the US economy facing recession, there aren't a lot of really good developers using ANY platform who are going to want to jump ship for a 3-month contract. It's too risky, especially in a city like NYC, where the cost of living isn't exactly cheap.
I'm still not understanding the mentality of having to have people on site in order to determine whether they can work or not. We put everything online from our social networks to our banking, but we can't seem to figure out that people are either going to work or not based on their work ethic, not their location. If the job gets done, why do you need to see the body?
I really believe once we can let the antiquated idea that in order to work with someone, we need to be in the same physical location, the "dearth of good candidates" I keep hearing about will vanish.
I'm an independent developer with all of the qualifications in that ad. I saw the ad before reading this article. Here's why I didn't apply:
1) I don't live in NYC. I used to, but the uncertain cash flow of freelancing combined with NYC taxes/prices is a no go. Instead I have a cavernous apartment in a major regional city, and work remotely for companies in the Bay Area, NYC, or D.C.
2) If I wanted an "office" job people are hiring and salary packages are generous. Why risk a three-month engagement? I'm not on a summer break from college.
3) As Andrew said, "you can dive into a complex codebase..." sounds suspiciously like "try to reverse engineer and fix other people's crap"
I recommend that they emphasize above-market compensation and drop the in-office requirement. If it works out they have an excellent chance of making the contract worker full time, possibly with a relocation to the area.
With a three-month contract, I´m not surprised at all.
Thanks everyone for excellent feedback. Seriously.
The I can see how the "complex codebase" phrase could deter some folks and be misread. The fact is that our codebase is complex because it's a complex platform. No one would be fixing anything, just building off our highly scalable and extensible -- but still complex -- platform.
On the issue of coming into the office, I think this is really where we kill some opportunity. This is mostly because of two things:
1. The complexity... better to lean over and say "how do I...?" and not wait to communicate across states or countries. Fact is, we're open to flying someone in for a few days to have this at least for the first week, if he/she's the right person. But we'd much rather have that 2,3-day a week efficiency of coworking.
2. As much as we love the web, we still believe in the magic of people coming together to get things done. This is why I love Meetup.com as a platform. Scott Heiferman always says "the revolution will not be YouTubed" because it will still happen when people get together in person. We crave this type of interaction with the folks we work with. It's why we go to conferences. It's why we're friends with each other and not just business partners.
On the last issue of compensation. Again, we must not have communicated this effectively, but we're all about compensating well, and to us equity is a bonus and does not automatically mean less money. Sure we want a lot of the motivation to work with us to come from wanting to with us, not just money, but we're no fools -- we'll pay well for good talent.
I have been telecommuter for the past few years and think that it offers unparalleled benefits for the company and the employee...but it depends on the employee. Right now I manage a remote team (no one is in the same office) and we work seamlessly together. If you have questions, you IM someone or call them. Being able to walk into someone else's office is nice, but not required.
In my opinion, filling a 3 month contract is insanely tough.
The most talented people don't want to work as a contractor for a startup -- they're either founders themselves, and/or have a good, steady job. They definitely don't want to work with or fix other people's code. Additionally, anyone who's that good will insist on doing a 3-month job on their own time, their own location, and their own terms -- not coming into someone else's office like an employee.
I've been looking for a PHP Developer in Cincinnati. So if its tough sledding in NYC, I can see why I have had a tough go of it here in Ohio. Looking at some of the previous posts, I will say that its a chance to build something from the ground up and a full-time gig. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.
Is it perhaps because Bricabox just doesn't sound very interesting?
Another CMS? Not exactly pantwettingly exciting, is it? If their app can handle blogs, they're not dogfooding it. It doesn't, from their site, appear to do anything you can't already do with (eg) Drupal and therefore as a hosted service with (eg) Bryght.com.
That, and the website also makes it very clear that they're a Rails shop?